Questions and answers [1]

Joke Oranje: I would like to bring up the issue of education. From the various proposals that were made, it becomes clear that we are in a difficult situation, because while assisting the victims of war one could easily get the impression that it is not going to help because the war still is going on. Perhaps the direction of our emergency funds could be changed a bit towards more structural work on education, in particular on peace education. In the long run you will need a culture of peace to sustain peace. If, as is the current situation in Angola, only 30% of the children in Angola have access to education, I think that is a point that needs attention. I believe that even those who are investing in oil and diamonds could help by investing now in educational efforts, while the peace process goes on.

Angolan refugee in the Netherlands (name unknown): I would like to emphasise what the previous speaker just said about the situation of the new generation, of the children that have become orphans (by war). I have also seen many children here in the Netherlands without the responsibility of the parents and the Dutch government is not taking responsibility for the accommodation of the children to build a future for the new generation in Angola. This is a case that we should take very seriously.

The other issue that I wanted to raise is the foundation of peace in Angola. The foundation of peace in Angola needs to be created by us, with the help of foreigners. The foreigners should help the country, not only (just) help in the sense of looking for an economic objective, because the country as such is very, very ruined. I am not only speaking of financial help, because the country is so rich that all could enrich themselves. We need industry to be able to make a step, it needs international assistance, and not just to export the economy (to abroad) and the country as such not being assisted.

Henk Kieft (chairman): What I take from your intervention is that also the Dutch government is challenged in the Netherlands to support refugees from Angola in the Netherlands and to allow the possibility for them to go back and to contribute to the rebuilding of the Angolan society and the economy. I would like to invite the two organisers, ICCO and NiZA, after our Angolan speakers have given their reaction to your questions, to give their views on your proposal.

Daniel Ntoni Nzinga: I think that the idea that is brought up is very valid. To consolidate peace in Angola we need in this phase a large investment in the educational system, as well as in the health system. The Angolans that are dying are not just because bullets hit their bodies but many more die because of insufficient medical assistance, and as you know the majority that can still escape are in the cities where the living conditions are far worse at the moment. Ignorance is also a serious problem. We are sacrificing generations while destroying, or letting our educational system destroy itself. There is another problem that is related to this, which is the fact that only those that have the financial means manage to send their children abroad to study. This is a seed of new wars, we need to stop this process as soon as we can. Because I am sure that there will be sons and daughters that will ask "why did he reach this level and did I not succeed?". Thus the question of identity which my colleague raised will come back to us in a few years' time if we do not take measures now. All this will have to be part of a process of constructing peace in Angola.

Fernando Pacheco: I would at least say something where I differ from the intervention of the reverend. He refers in a slightly pessimistic way to the situation of education in Angola. I do not agree with this view. Because even if it is true that the educational system is well affected […] it is also true that there are many very interesting initiatives that are being realised […] by both national and foreign NGOs. I could even say that from a point of view of the development projects, those that have most substance are the projects in the field of education. I could give you various examples related to this aspect. ADRA for example, has a project that is directed at children and schools, which assists a thousand teachers to improve their work with the children.

Wieteke Beernink (ICCO): I would like to react to the second question regarding the attitude of the Dutch government towards giving support to Angolans who are refugees in the Netherlands and who want to return to their country. A few years ago the Dutch government started an initiative directed at giving support to refugees who wanted to return to their country of origin, and asked ICCO and other co-financing agencies to co-operate. At that time our stand was that it did not seem very realistic to support people to return to Angola while the war was still continuing. We realise that at this moment most refugees prefer to stay in Holland instead of going to a country which is in a complete state of war. As a result of the reaction of the co-financing agencies, the government realised that at this moment it is not realistic for Angolan refugees to return to their country of origin. As ICCO we say that it is much more important to look at the millions of internally displaced persons (IDP's) within the country and hundreds of thousands refugees within the region, we should focus on how those can be assisted first.

That deals with one part of your question, the other part of your question concerns the support of the Dutch to Angola itself. The Dutch government has decided to stop bilateral development co-operation with Angola completely, because of the war and because of bad-governance. Fortunately, the co-financing agencies such as ICCO and Novib, will continue, with funds provided by the Dutch government, to support projects in Angola. This support will especially be directed at NGOs and churches and we think it is very important to continue our support not only for emergency activities, but especially for programs that are directed towards working for sustainable development. We think that it is very important to contribute to building civil society by giving support to organisations, especially by providing organisational and institutional support.

Henk van den Heuvel (NiZA): I would like to add something to Wieteke's comments with regard to the refugee issue. Wieteke was referring to the project of giving incentives to Angolan refugees that are currently in the Netherlands to repatriate to their country by giving them support upon their return to Angola. That project has come to a halt. I would like to draw the attention to the refugees that come from Angola to the Netherlands in general. Even this year there was a big debate about the question whether or not refugees from Angola should get asylum in the Netherlands. NiZA is very worried about this, because in a broader perspective the mechanism that is in place to monitor the human rights violations in certain countries is not working very well. The Dutch government in its asylum procedure works with so-called "Ambtsberichten", which are reports of the embassies in the countries of origin of the asylum seekers about the situation in the country. The point is that there are quite a number of NGOs in Europe, among which Amnesty International who in particular has been very strong (vocal) about this, who try to make clear to the Dutch government that refugees should get asylum in the Netherlands.

Daniel Ntoni Nzinga: I would like to return to the point of education. As a Church pastor, I participated in the promotion of many school programs at the level of the country. Today, having an idea of the situation of my country as a whole, I consider many of the initiatives which are very good as islands, but I wish that these islands integrate themselves. I was speaking of Angolans with money who send their children to study abroad. This is a reality, also inside the country, today. Not very far from my house is a building, formerly a residence that has been transformed in less than two years into a very beautiful college, but my nephews who live nearby can not enter this school because their parents do not have the money.

What we need is a global process of education for all Angolans and that every Angolan child has the feeling that he is part of this society. Now, doing one thing in one place while the rest does not have access to it can not be the model. Here I refer to a process that is directed at responding to the needs of all. Not all have the money to pay 600 dollars to be admitted to university. It is only a small number of people that manage this. Neither do all have the money to register their children for school and pay 200 dollars. A person who earns 10 dollars per month has to pay 200 dollars to register his children, really: what is going on here?